Jude Law, Nicholas Hoult First Met A Month Into Shoot

[This story contains light spoilers for The Order.]

Jude Law is having a December to remember. The two-time Oscar nominee is currently the star of two critically acclaimed works on the big and small screens, and he is again proving that he’s among a select few actors who can bring a sense of authenticity to roles as disparate as a battle-weary FBI agent in The Order and a Force-using pirate on Star Wars: Skeleton Crew. 

In the former, Law’s composite character, Terry Husk, is relocated by the FBI to a sleepy field office in Idaho after a punishing career opposing the likes of the Sicilian Mob and the KKK. Written by Zach Baylin and directed by Justin Kurzel, the 1980s-set true story instead positions Terry for his most notable case yet in taking on Bob Mathews (Nicholas Hoult), the real-life leader of a white supremacist group known as the Order.

Mathews’ movement was a more impatient and violent offshoot of Richard Butler’s Aryan Nation, and this tale of domestic terrorism is a familiar one since he relied on William Luther Pierce’s “bible of the racist right,” The Turner Diaries, which, per the film’s postscript, also factored into 1995’s Oklahoma City bombing and the January 6 United States Capitol attack. Law, like a lot of people, once thought that these extremist organizations were a relic of the past, but over the last decade, variations of them, both masked and unmasked, have garnered headlines around the world.

“[Terry Husk] had hoped to disappear into this [Idaho-based] community where he could fish and hunt, but he actually had the greatest fight ahead of him,” Law tells The Hollywood Reporter in support of The Order’s theatrical release on Dec 6. “So that was something that felt personal to me, too. 10 to 15 years ago, I felt like, globally, the fight was behind us. And now, I certainly feel like there’s a fight ahead of us.”

On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, Law portrays a Force-sensitive pirate within the Jon Watts and Christopher Ford-created Skeleton Crew that’s currently airing weekly on Disney+. His character is known by several names including Captain Silvo, Jod Na Nawood and Crimson Jack, and after a mutiny by his former crew, he’s imprisoned on Port Borgo until he’s able to free himself with the aid of four lost children. For Law, leading a Star Wars project allowed him the opportunity to bring his acting career full circle.

“My relationship with that galaxy began at a very formative time in my life. I was about six years old, and I don’t remember seeing many movies before that,” Law recalls. “So [Star Wars] was ultimately a stepping stone to acting, and there was a sense of completion by being asked to suddenly step into it and play a part. And the character [of Jod Na Nawood/Silvo/Crimson Jack] was very satisfying. He’s full of contradictions, and I hope people enjoy those lights and shades.”

Below, during a recent conversation with THR, Law also discusses some of The Order’s key scenes, including a tragic sequence involving blood and dirt-covered hands. Then he reflects on the launch of his career in the States by way of Andrew Niccol’s sci-fi classic, Gattaca.

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The Order is an example of why they say that history repeats itself. Did you have a similar takeaway after your first read? 

My first takeaway was that this was an extraordinary [true] story that hadn’t been told, and it has unfortunate resonance today on a global level. But the potential was clear based on what Zach Baylin achieved in the script. He made it a character study that’s also folded into this cat-and-mouse thriller, this edge-of-the-seat genre film or what I like to now call an elevated genre film. So all of those facets really made it irresistible.

You just touched on this, but despite being set in the States, do you think The Order will hit close to home in the U.K. as well? 

Well, there’s a subject matter and an approach by a filmmaker who has a gift at looking at complicated people. He places them in their environments, in their communities, in their families, giving you a sense of why people make the decisions they make, what they’re trying to achieve or what it is that they’re being driven by or for. So that’s a global message, and for the time, there’s something in it that will hopefully impact everybody.

Crime drama/thriller is my favorite genre, and while it hasn’t disappeared by any means, it’s probably in shorter supply nowadays. So perhaps the story’s relevance helped, but how challenging was it to get The Order made?

It was as challenging as one can expect given the current landscape of indie filmmaking. It wasn’t harder than most, but it was harder than some. (Laughs) It was a familiar journey of asking and hoping to get more money and more time, but we were a pretty nimble and lean setup. And once we started, we didn’t hit any major stumbling blocks. We shot out like a cannon, and while we had the writers’ strike and the threat of an actors’ strike to compete with, we managed to duck it all by about four or five days. So it was tricky. 

To go back to your point about genre movies, it’s been very interesting discussing the effect this has had on folk and how people have come away feeling. There’s a message and a relevance at the heart of it, but it also delivers as a thrill ride. It reminds me of the event films that were huge crowd-pleasers when I was growing up, whether it was [Sydney] Lumet or [William] Freidkin. So it’s been really interesting to hear that people are very welcoming of that aspect of the film.

The choices you make on the screen are still the most satisfying, I imagine, but have you found the producorial decisions behind the scenes to be rewarding in their own way?

This film is a perfect example of how producing can be hugely rewarding. It was born out of a relationship with Zach Baylin, who’s a really talented young writer. We’d been in discussion with him about various projects, and we have actually now just made a limited TV series [Black Rabbit] with him. So, I was lucky enough to have a real input into where and how to make the film realized, and we were also lucky to have Justin Kurzel come on board. It felt like we [Law’s production company Riff Raff Entertainment] were forging another new relationship with a terrific filmmaker who was absolutely perfect for this piece. So I’ve really relished, and I continue to relish my contributions as a producer to the stuff I do. It gives me a greater sense of input and control. That makes me sound like I want everything done just so, but what I enjoy more than anything actually is the collaborative and empowering process of being a producer. If you choose the right people, then you let them do their job well.

With Terry Husk being a composite character, was the main purpose to juxtapose the real-life Bob Mathews in various ways? 

That’s really well put. Zach was clear from the get-go that Terry needed to reflect certain lifestyle choices and indeed contrast with Mathews. Therefore, it just seemed unfair to put those changes or decisions on a real-life special agent. And the more Justin and I worked on the character, the more that decision was valid due to the loss of Husk’s family and the cost that he’s paid for a successful career and the ultimate physical effect that it’s had on him. I wanted to come up with a guy who just seemed broken by his life and his positive actions. He had hoped to go to seed and disappear into this [Idaho-based] community where he could fish and hunt, but he actually had the greatest fight ahead of him. So that was something that felt personal to me, too. 10 to 15 years ago, I felt like, globally, the fight was behind us. And now, I certainly feel like there’s a fight ahead of us.

The scar on his chest and the random nosebleeds, did you ever diagnose him?

Yeah, that was an idea of Justin’s. We were trying to piece together an authentic physical reaction to 26 years in the field and the pressures of that. And it was a different time. People tended to smoke and drink more, and they probably didn’t eat very well. Justin said that a relative of his had a stent put in because of a heart condition, and they were given this drug at the time that thins your blood. So he had memories of this relative getting passionate or angry either watching rugby or football, and they would suddenly start bleeding from the nose. So we just thought those were really interesting details to add to Terry’s ailments and this sense of him being slightly broken. I wanted the audience to doubt him and wonder, “God, is he even going to make it to the end of the week, let alone the case?” You’re willing him to do so, but it looks doubtful. 

When the sheriff invites Terry over for dinner, he says he’d rather accept the invitation once his family is in town, but I read that as him making a plan that he knows will never come to pass. 

(Laughs)

Was he always aware of the situation with his family despite his persistent phone calls to the contrary?

That’s a really detailed question, and I love that you picked up on that. I don’t think he’s deluded. Someone actually said to me, “Oh, the family doesn’t exist, right?” And I was like, “No, no, no.” So he’s not deluded. Once he arrives [in Idaho], he’s hoping and waiting for them to forgive him for whatever it is he’s done. He’s hoping that they will want to build bridges and mend and heal, and there’s a little part of him that really believes that they will follow him there. And as his focus on the new case takes away from the necessary rest that his body is asking for, the further they disappear in the rear-view mirror. Having said that, I don’t think he has any interest whatsoever in having a barbecue with the sheriff, so he’s using something that he knows is going to be a way off.

[Note: This next question/answer alludes to spoilers while withholding a key victim’s name.]

There’s a handwashing motif in the movie that reflects Terry’s guilty conscience, and there’s a powerful moment where he has to make do with dirt. Did you really go for it on the day?

That was a very interesting day, and it’s a great reflection on how Justin works and how comfortable I felt with him. He is a director that sits with you and by you, on the camera. He’s never very far from what we are shooting and what the action is. He uses the script as a map, but it’s a map that he can also go off-piste from, especially in the physical language. 

And that moment is not only a moment of loss, but it’s also a huge moment of guilt and dread for Terry Husk. I impulsively wanted to get away from [spoiler’s] dead body when it was apparent that he wasn’t breathing anymore and I had his blood all over my hands. And if I remember rightly, Justin whispered, “Clean them, clean them. Try and remove the blood.” But there was nothing around, so I just picked up the dirt. And what was so effective was that it made the blood thicker. This kind of tar was suddenly on my hands. So the idea that Terry couldn’t wash his hands and that the blood would remain was such a terrific lightning-in-a-bottle moment that Justin guided me towards. 

Another motif that came out of his gentle curiosity was the shot never taken. I don’t remember it being heavily scripted. There are those moments between Bob and Terry, but there are all those moments with the elk. And the decision for us to use the sound of a gunshot or not at the very end of the film became quite a to-and-fro conversation between all of us involved. Justin was really adamant that you mustn’t hear a shot, so we instead finished on Terry’s breath. And what I’ve realized now is that he’s left it perfectly open-ended by doing that. The hunt is still on, and it’s an unanswered offering. 

I love the trope where the hero interacts with the villain without realizing it, and you and Nick Hoult have a powerhouse version of that type of scene. It’s also dramatic irony since the audience knows more than Terry does in that moment. Anyway, actors often say the camera can pick up one’s thoughts, so did you have to be very careful to not tip your hand too much in that scene?

Well, there was a sequence before that, which I fought to cut right up to the last minute. It did indeed get cut, although I think we shot a sort of smaller version where Terry was being followed by Bob. Originally, I said, “Look, there’s no way an FBI agent with his experience would be able to be followed without noticing. He would just know.” So we decided that he knows he’s being followed and he lets it happen, but then we were worried, as you said, that it would tip the hand to him knowing it must be Mathews or one of Mathews’ gang [and not some random local hunter]. So isolating that moment instead gives you a greater sense of possible ambiguity as to how much Terry senses about this person and if it’s the person he’s hunting. 

And here’s an interesting little insight: Justin had it arranged so that Nick and I didn’t interact. We never really crossed paths until we shot that scene, and we were a good month into the film by then. There were almost two stories being told simultaneously anyway. So as far as the scheduling, the call times and the demands for where we had to be and when, we just ended up not seeing each other until that scene. I can’t remember how much of the first take Justin actually used; we did several, but that interaction was the first time Nick and I met on the film. 

I know I’m not really answering your question about how I navigated playing it, but it must be interesting to be someone who’s hyper-aware like an agent. Terry does say, “Are you following me?” And Bob admits to it [in a cheeky way]. So Terry probably had a hunch that it has something to do with what he’s poking, but I don’t think he thinks that this is the guy.

Prior to their conversation, there’s a scene where Terry has an elk in crosshairs, but then he notices Bob behind him with his own rifle. Are you saying there was another scene between them before all that?

In the film, you see Terry park his car at the lake and get the gun out of his trunk. He then washes his hands and sees the elk. That’s also when you realize that Bob is there behind him. Prior to all that, there was a driving sequence of Bob following Terry, but they nicked it so that you think Terry is alone out in the wilderness. You then realize that Bob has been on his tail.

You’re having quite a month, as The Order releases in the same week as another high-profile project of yours in a galaxy far, far away. What sort of itch did your Skeleton Crew character scratch? 

Well, my relationship with that galaxy began at a very formative time in my life. I was about six years old, and I don’t remember seeing many movies before that. I had probably been taken to 101 Dalmatians or what have you. But [Star Wars] played a big part in how my imagination blossomed as a child, while running around my yard or the schoolyard, pretending to be those characters. So it was ultimately a stepping stone to acting, and there was a sense of completion by being asked to suddenly step into it and play a part. And the character [of Jod Na Nawood/Silvo/Crimson Jack] was very satisfying. He’s full of contradictions, and I hope people enjoy those lights and shades.

My adolescent self will never forgive me if I don’t force Gattaca into the conversation. Whether it’s crawling up stairs or handling “genetic materials,” what detail from filming recurs the most nearly three decades later? 

It was a very important film in my life. It was the first time I’d come to Hollywood to live and make a film, which, as you can imagine, was quite an experience for a young actor from South East London. I’d never really considered that making films would be a part of my acting career. I knew I could get into the theater, but coming here and making films was extraordinary for me. And the experience of working with Ethan [Hawke] was hugely impactful. He was passionate, hardworking, fun to be around and hugely creative. So he left a huge impression on me, as did the opportunity to really embrace a character who had so many qualities. I loved trying to perfect the physicality of that character. Looking back, I’m very lucky to have started making films in that time period because we were left alone to go play. [Filmmaker] Andrew Niccol had a very impish sense of humor and a very sharp perspective on life and storytelling. So it was great fun creating that world. But being my first time in Hollywood, everything was in a golden haze and viewed through rose-tinted lenses.

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The Order is now playing in movie theaters.