Lava’s Jason Flom and Jeff Kempler on Upcoming ‘Bone Valley’ Podcast, Rock’s Comeback

It’s hard to find another company in the music industry quite like the unique media hodgepodge Jason Flom has developed with Lava.

Flom is best known in the music business as an old-school executive who helmed famed labels like Atlantic and Capitol, signing acts such as Thirty Seconds to Mars, Katy Perry and Kid Rock. His own Lava Records has housed artists like Lorde and Jessie J and launched Greta Van Fleet, the biggest act on its current roster, as Lava is steering more heavily into rock with developing acts like The Warning and Haiden Henderson.

Flom found his second act as a respected advocate for criminal justice reform through his nine-year-old podcast Wrongful Conviction, telling the stories of prisoners incarcerated for crimes they say they didn’t commit in the hopes of helping their cases for their release. The show’s helped grow out a podcast network of its own called Lava For Good.

Perhaps most unexpectedly, he found his way into children’s media too, co-authoring the children’s book Lulu is a Rhinoceros with his daughter Allison back in 2018. Apple TV+ signed a musical TV adaptation that hit the service at the end of May, and Flom is hoping the show can turn into a proper series there.

Later this week, on July 30, Lava For Good will release Bone Valley 3: Graves County, hosted by Pulitzer-winner Maggie Freleng, which will chronicle Quincy Cross’s conviction over the murder of 18-year-old Jessica Currin back in 2000.

“John Grisham, who’s been on our show now several times talking about different cases, he always says each of these cases is so insane that they each deserve their own book,” Flom tells The Hollywood Reporter. “When you find a case that rises to the level of insane even by our standards, you get the case we’re highlighting with Quincy Cross.”

Speaking with THR, Flom and Lava’s chief operating officer Jeff Kempler open up about Graves County, their growing podcast business, the resurgence of rock and roll and their unexpected foray into kids’ television.

You got involved in the podcasting world before it had turned into this larger industry. Were you expecting podcasting to balloon this much? Did you think you’d have this sort of podcast network you’ve built out?

FLOM The answers are no and no. Podcasting was still relatively nascent at the time, but I had such a passion for storytelling, and I’ve been so deeply involved with innocence work, and in particular, in sharing the stories of these extraordinary people who were convicted of crimes they didn’t commit. My simple goal was to educate the public by sharing these stories. I knew it would be cathartic for the people who are sharing them themselves to be able to have their story told in the way that they’ve been trying to get people to listen to for decades.

Was there a point it became clear there was an entire network you could build out of the show?

KEMPLER The impetus for starting the podcast was more of a moral imperative than a commercial plan. The growth we’ve seen here came from a clear need for more storytellers because, as we’ve seen over the years, there are so many stories to tell. There was a huge line of cases we wanted to get to. We took the lessons of the music business and what we learned for decades doing that, and we kind of created a label with podcasts as opposed to albums.

How does Lava measure success with your programming? 

KEMPLER We gained notoriety in the space because of the impact out in the world, cases achieving different results, partially because of the attention we brought. Jason often talks about micro-purpose and macro-purpose. The macro-purpose here is that when you hear about what goes into a wrongful conviction like this, most people with common sense may say, “This can’t be an isolated instance.” This can’t be something that happened in Kentucky one time.

FLOM We’ve seen time and again when you shine a light on these injustices, sometimes dominoes start to fall that lead to the freeing of a person who was wrongfully convicted in the first place. 

Your latest addition comes later this month with Bone Valley 3: Graves County — tell me about the new program.

FLOM This case was brought to me by another guy in prison [that] I’m working with named Sheron Edwards, who loves to research cases around the country and try to help. He introduced us to this case, and I started finding that there were all these crazy connections, and this crazy web of corruption. There was a murder in Kentucky, [and] they let the obvious suspect go under very dubious circumstances. Years went by, pressure mounted, and they decided to hone in on seven kids who had nothing to do with it. They managed to convince a jury these kids were guilty; Quincy Cross got the brunt of it. 

I think it is going to blow people’s minds. If I’m scratching my head wondering “how could this be,” imagine what someone who’s new to this space is going to think about a case like that. 

Lava of course started with the music. What’s been your focus at Lava Records today?

FLOM We’re bullish on rock and roll. I was raised on rock and roll. It was my favorite, you know, thing as a kid, going to see the greatest bands of all time at Madison Square Garden. It’s really exciting with Greta Van Fleet, we feel like we helped to bring back that spirit. I think it’s been a priority for Monte and Avery Lipman, they’re so dominant in country, hip-hop and pop, and so we had a meeting of the minds where we said this is an area where we could help to grow what is already the best label in the country with Republic. 

Now we have not only Greta, but The Warning, who are having a real moment. We’ve got Haiden Henderson, who’s growing leaps and bounds. We’ve got another rock band, Return to Dust, who’s starting to make some noise. What Lava For Good has become in podcasting for all things criminal legal reform, we feel Lava is on the verge of becoming that label for any rock band that wants to break through. 

Rock’s resurgence has been a notable trend this year — why do you think it’s happening?

FLOM The music business does have a certain cyclical nature, right? You can almost feel it when it’s happening, that a certain genre becomes so dominant that it has to crest. There’s enough of a certain sound, and then people go back to either something brand new, or they go back to something that’s tried and true, that’s presented in a new way.

It’s funny to talk about your bet on rock when one of your company’s latest moves is children’s television with Lulu is a Rhinoceros.

FLOM It all just sort of happened very magically and serendipitously. I went to Africa on a trip working to try to save the rhinos and got to see these living dinosaurs close up. It was magical, and the idea came to my head when I got back. It’s so fun because now I get to be the artist, getting to work and be sort of the creator behind the show with my daughter, Allison. It’s really a new horizon for me. 

So is Lulu something we should expect Lava will be expanding on further?

KEMPLER Jason and Allison completed the manuscript on the second book.

FLOM It’s a book-turned-show on Apple TV+, the music is being distributed by Republic Kids, it’s a full media thing now. What we’re hoping and seeing some signs of is that it’s reaching a really significant audience, and that Apple will be happy with those results, and ideally, knock wood, we’ll turn it into a series that’ll run forever. 

The book’s about a dog who sees itself as a rhino. I’ve seen some in the LGBTQ community championing Lulu for its message of inclusivity. Given the politics of the country right now, toward groups like the transgender community, that seems particularly poignant. 

FLOM The theme of the book is replacing ​​judgment with curiosity; how people want to interpret that is up to them. We didn’t have a specific group that we were aiming at. We set out to create a little hero for kids who could feel left out, put down or bullied for the way they look or the way they are. Everyone’s going to interpret everything, especially these days, anybody that gets something out of it or feels elevated by its message is exciting for us.