M3GAN 2.0 Director Won’t Be Surprised If There’s 5 Sequels

M3GAN 2.0 writer-director Gerard Johnstone believes his sassy killing machine has staying power. 

When the New Zealander made his major studio debut in January 2023 with M3GAN, he channeled his own parental anxiety regarding the emotional dependence that today’s youngest generations have on their devices. In the franchise-launching film that grossed nearly $182 million against $12 million, Cady James (Violet McGraw) lost both her parents in a car accident, prompting her preoccupied roboticist aunt, Gemma Forrester (Allison Williams), to raise her with the help of a prototype android doll named M3GAN. That decision quickly backfires when Cady becomes too reliant on M3GAN. From there, the AI-powered toy proceeds to kill four people (and a dog) in the name of supposedly protecting Cady.

The critically lauded techno horror-comedy also hit theaters at a time when AI technology, such as ChatGPT, was beginning to take root, and so the 2021-shot film happened to ask many of the same questions that were now being asked in real life. Has this tech been fully baked? How much can we really trust an artificially intelligent entity? Is the human workforce about to become obsolete? Johnstone’s sequel, M3GAN 2.0, ventures to explore these very thoughts and concerns, and the filmmaker is of the mind that we do bear some responsibility in how we use AI.

“If [AI] does bad things, is that really because the thing itself is bad? Or is it just because of the way we’ve trained it?” Johstone tells The Hollywood Reporter in support of M3GAN 2.0’s June 27 theatrical release. 

M3GAN 2.0 underscores that point after a defense contractor acquires M3GAN’s leaked source code to create AMELIA (Ivanna Sakhno), a military-grade killer android who immediately defies the U.S. government to go rogue. She begins to target anyone who had anything to do with her creation, forcing Gemma to rebuild a hopefully more reliable M3GAN as humanity’s first-and-only line of defense. The plot may seem halfway similar to Terminator 2: Judgment Day, but Johnstone insists any such overlap was purely coincidental. 

“It’s really funny because the comparisons started after the script was written. I thought, ‘Yeah, I guess [James] Cameron did it first — like everything else,’” Johnstone says with a laugh. “But I was really just focused on a redemption arc for M3GAN. I will also say that T2 would be more similar [to M3GAN 2.0] if it was a redemption story for [Arnold Schwarzenegger’s] first Terminator from The Terminator. Terminator 2 has a completely different robot.”

Whether we like it or not, corporate America is already integrating AI into our society, and many more issues are bound to arise from this rapidly evolving tech. That’s partially why Johnstone believes the M3GAN franchise could have a long shelf life. Each subsequent film could explore the latest developments to this still-maturing technology, just as the first two films have done.

“I would not be surprised if there’s another five of these movies. So, who knows, maybe I’ll come back for the fifth one,” Johstone says.

Johnstone may be somewhat level-headed about AI in and of itself, but make no mistake, the current volatility in just about every walk of life has made him particularly nostalgic about the past.

“I am trying not to be a curmudgeon, but I kind of hate this future in so many ways,” Johnstone shares. “And it’s really strange to be a parent in the modern age. You find yourself reminiscing about simpler times all the time, and that was really the impetus for me getting involved in M3GAN in the first place.”

Below, during a recent conversation with THR, Johnstone also reflects on the debate around whether to market M3GAN’s now-iconic dance in the first movie’s trailer, as well as M3GAN 2.0’s follow-up dance sequence.

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I once asked James Wan if there was a movie that got away, and he said that the closest example he has to a regret was Disturbia. He didn’t actually pursue it, but he really liked the script at the time. Thus, I can see how your feature directorial debut, Housebound, struck a similar chord with him. The tonal juggling act in that film is what ultimately helped you land M3GAN?

Yeah, I had heard that James was a big fan of Housebound. At the time, I thought it was a really unique premise, but there were a couple of films that had done it. Disturbia is one, and an old Gary Busey film from the ‘80s is another. Those were the only two with a similar kind of premise. But James was a big fan of mine from the get-go, and it was heartening to have him and his team constantly checking in to see whether or not I would be interested in some of the things that they were developing [including M3GAN].

In 2022, Allison Williams told me that there was a lot of debate about whether to show dancing M3GAN in the first movie’s trailer. What do you remember about that back and forth? 

It’s an interesting question when it comes to how you market a film that plays around with tone. Housebound was marketed as a straight horror, and that was a little bit disappointing to me at the time because I felt like people were missing a lot of the comedy that’s in here. But it worked out great in a way because the comedy was a little bit of an extra unexpected layer. 

On the first M3GAN, Universal did something very clever where they marketed the film as a straight horror movie, and with a straight face, they also included the dance as a strange subversion of tone. It was comedy-coded in a way. A lot of people got that and felt, “Oh, this movie is going to be a little bit camp and goofy.” 

I also think a lot of people thought the humor in it was going to be unintentional, but when they actually watched the film and realized that a lot of the humor was completely intentional, it worked out great. And had Universal not included that dance, people would not have been able to take that footage and recut it to make M3GAN the cultural icon that she ended up becoming. So there certainly was hesitation and debate, but it was short-lived. It all worked out great. 

It must’ve been a big advantage to already know the desired tone going into the sequel, and it actually feels like M3GAN 2.0 is more confident in its tone. Did you actually feel more sure of yourself since you knew what the audience responded to in the last film?

There’s a little bit of that, but it’s also that I have more confidence in myself as a director. I had more confidence in how to stage certain things, and knowing how important prep is, we assembled a really incredible team that upped the stakes. We were given the summer blockbuster slot, and we just felt like we had to live up to that. We might not have the budget of Terminator 2, but we didn’t let that stop us. We just thought we had to deliver, and so that’s really what we did. 

A lot of the film has to be pre-planned, but we also knew that we’d come back to New Zealand for reshoots. The icing on the cake in a lot of those sequences is really done in reshoots. You have your first go at it, and you get everything you hope you can get within that schedule, but you’re always missing key pieces. So you get to go back and finesse, and getting those little bonuses and extra bits is always my favorite part of the process.

The assumption is that you took a page out of Terminator 2’s playbook by having M3GAN defend the heroes against a greater robotic threat. Was T2 actually your inspiration? Or are there only so many directions one can go? 

I think it’s more the latter. It’s really funny because the comparisons started after the script was written. I can’t remember who the first person was to mention T2, but I thought, “Oh, okay. Yeah, I guess [James] Cameron did it first — like everything else.” (Laughs.) But I was really just focused on a redemption arc for M3GAN. 

I will also say that T2 would be more similar [to M3GAN 2.0] if it was a redemption story for [Arnold Schwarzenegger’s] first Terminator from The Terminator. That’s the key difference. Terminator 2 has a completely different robot. He has to learn certain things, but he’s been programmed to protect from the get-go. M3GAN 2.0 is about a machine that we think of as malevolent, but then we do a deeper dive. 

As much as it’s a redemption story for M3GAN, it’s also a reckoning for ourselves as human beings and as parents of AI who brought this technology into the world. We have to contend with our role in creating this. If it does bad things, is that really because the thing itself is bad? Or is it just because of the way we’ve trained it?

In December 2022, I asked Allison, Jason Blum and James Wan a bunch of AI questions without realizing that it would soon dominate the larger conversation, especially during the industry strikes throughout 2023. Did the public’s deeper awareness of AI make this script a lot more complicated to write? 

Well, in a way, it helped us come up with a good reason for doing this movie. M3GAN was all about iPads and devices, and how pervasive they are in terms of modern-age parenting. And at the same time the movie was coming out, ChatGPT was coming out, and so many of the things that M3GAN was doing in the movie didn’t seem so ridiculous anymore. So it just made the idea of doing a sequel so much more relevant because AI itself is everywhere. M3GAN 2.0 is a morality tale about our relationship to AI and exploration of that. And in a way, M3GAN is a mouthpiece for AI itself to say what it thinks and feels. 

Everyone’s talking about the idea of AI having consciousness, and at the time, that was a big thing. People were having conversations with ChatGPT, and we thought, “Shit, it’s already happened.” But this movie also explores the idea of whether or not that’s even possible, whether consciousness is even real, whether M3GAN is self-aware or if she’s actually just an incredibly advanced operating system that’s following one objective. 

So I thought that was really interesting, especially when you put it through the lens of a character like Cady [Violet McGraw], who really wishes that M3GAN did have a conscience. Gemma [Allison Williams] believes that she doesn’t, and it’s a way to accept what she did [to create her] and to not feel guilt over it. If we think of AI as a real living thing, then it would be a lot harder for Gemma to accept her role as her creator.

Yeah, I remember ChatGPT and AI art had just become a thing right before the release of the first movie, but I thought AI was still this niche product that was still years and years away. But the pace moved much quicker than anyone ever expected, and I have to imagine that impacted your writing process. 

Well, you’re always worried, and I was like, “As long as the world still exists by the time this movie comes out and the singularity hasn’t happened and AI hasn’t taken over, the world, we’ll be good.” But it did seem like there was just this incredible burst of progress with AI.

M3GAN 2.0 believes that the onus is ultimately on us in terms of how we use AI, but the Silicon Valley types who are investing billions into it don’t seem to be the most empathetic bunch. I’m not convinced they’re being “good parents” to AI. Are you less doom and gloom than I am about where we’re headed?

I think I’m somewhere in the middle. These movies have always been a cautionary tale for those people in Silicon Valley who are all about moving fast and breaking things. They’re just all about progress and legacy: “I want to be the first to make this breakthrough without really thinking about the repercussions.” 

I am trying not to be a curmudgeon, but I kind of hate this future in so many ways. I hate that I can’t just turn on the TV so my kids can just watch a cartoon like Thunderbirds. Instead, we argue about what’s on streaming or YouTube. There’s some good things on YouTube, but there’s a hell of a lot of junk. So they just end up watching the same thing over and over again, and it’s really strange to be a parent in the modern age. You find yourself reminiscing about simpler times all the time, and that was really the impetus for me getting involved in M3GAN in the first place.

At the same time, I do think AI is capable of incredible things, and that’s the interesting debate. If AI can cure cancer, then, absolutely, let’s put all we can into AI and those kinds of technologies. But when AI starts taking away jobs and creative jobs, that sucks, obviously.

Was there a point where you had to sit Violet McGraw down and say, “So this is who Steven Seagal is”? 

(Laughs.) There was, and it was as awkward as you might imagine. I need to catch up with Violet to see if there’s been any further progress on her relationship with young Steven Seagal. But I pretty much had to walk her through some of his movies and what was cool about him at the time and just the way he carried himself. He’d give this look where he narrows his eyes like a hawk, and we practiced that a lot.

(Note: The next question and answer pertains to a story point that is in the final trailer for M3GAN 2.0, but if you’ve yet to watch it, you may want to skip ahead for optimal enjoyment.) Your Blumhouse stablemate, Leigh Whannell, isn’t interested in making an Upgrade sequel, so I’m glad you smuggled one into this using Allison’s character. Did she appreciate a more physical role on this go-round?

Absolutely. Allison is a great student, and when you give her a challenge, she wants to be an A-plus student. So she trained every day, and she did as much of it as she could. I was really impressed with the way she carried herself and how she pulled off a lot of this stuff. It’s really difficult, especially when she’s got to sub in for a stunt double who’s been doing this for years and has muscle memory. But the way Allison would run into a room or leap to grab a gun, you could see all of that training kicking in, suddenly. So I used to joke with her that she makes a surprisingly adequate action star.

The SNL sketch that came out in January 2023 was titled “M3GAN 2.0.” So do you have SNL to thank for the title of your sequel? 

(Laughs.) I think we must. The decision to call it M3GAN 2.0 was made even before I was officially back on board. But it does seem like there are a lot of SNL fans [within the M3GAN brain trust], both myself and on the Universal side of things. So it was an amazing moment for me to see M3GAN’s stamp on culture, and the culmination of that was seeing her in that SNL sketch. As a huge fan, it was a real pinch-me moment.

Did you make M3GAN taller because her physical performer, Amie Donald, is also taller now? 

Yeah, a little bit. Amie is such an integral part of the creation and execution of M3GAN, and it just felt right [to accommodate her new height]. The other side of it was that Violet is also growing, and if M3GAN is somewhere between a best friend and a parent to Cady, it doesn’t make sense for her to be shorter than Cady.

Was there a lot more consideration as to what dance she’d do this time? 

Absolutely. Her dancing was such a massive part of the first movie, so I wanted to give audiences the pleasure of seeing her dance again, but in a really unexpected way. There were a few different ideas floated at once, and I was like, “How can I make a dance-off?” I was going to have AMELIA dance to distract M3GAN, and she was going to be like, “Oh, man, she used my own trick against me.” But her being a robot that’s dressed in a [human’s] robot costume — and is then forced to take part in this dance, reluctantly — that felt like the best way to do it in the end.

Did you cast Ivanna Sakhno as AMELIA based on her breakout role in Ahsoka?

Yeah, I’ve got boys who are 10 and 12, and we watch all of those Star Wars shows. As soon as I saw her on that show, I thought, “We need someone like that for AMELIA.” So I went about finding someone that has that same level of intensity and whatever alchemy that Ivanna brings, but I just couldn’t see it anywhere else. She’s very unique. So, in the end, casting said, “Why don’t we just bring her in?” (Laughs.) She then won everyone over; she’s perfect for the role. So I absolutely have Ahsoka to thank for her casting.

If you had to, could you pitch M3GAN 3.0 tomorrow? 

(Laughs.) No, I couldn’t, and the reason is because I just put every single idea I had into M3GAN 2.0.

In success, is everybody open to a proper trilogy?

Yeah, but I would not be surprised if there’s another five of these movies. So, who knows, maybe I’ll come back for the fifth one.

Lastly, my THR colleague reported on a U.S. remake of Housebound a decade ago. How far did that iteration advance?

It never got past the script stage, and I never saw that script. But I’m torn because a couple of people have brought it up recently, and I would love to see what that film could be. We made my film for $200K, so there’s a part of me that’s curious to see what it would like if it was given a budget. I think certain aspects of the design and some of the characters could really benefit from that. But at the same time, the fact that it hasn’t happened means that our version of the film still exists for people to dig up. So, in that way, I’m at peace with it.

I still think about its reveal from time to time.

Well, maybe you shouldn’t let me give it away in this interview. (Laughs.)

I’m being purposefully vague, and I’ve already cut a reference you made earlier that gives it away.

Great! I need to be better at not spoiling my own work.

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M3GAN 2.0 opens June 27 in movie theaters nationwide.