Bravo’s May announcement that Bozoma Saint John had joined the cast of The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills set off a flurry of forwarded Instagrams and emails among Hollywood’s executive ranks.
Typically, the broader entertainment industry is more discrete about its interest in reality TV. But this particular bit of news was something else. Saint John, until very recently, was one of their own. The camera-friendly CMO had come to town in 2018 — first running marketing at Endeavor and then at Netflix before her 2022 exit. Along the way, the veteran exec (Pepsi, Beats, Apple, Uber) cultivated a mystique that’s rare among those in the c-suite… and a few detractors, as well.
With The Real Housewives, Saint John puts herself in the public gaze like never before. Not that she sees it that way. Ask her and she’ll tell you she’s just walking the same fine line she has her entire career. “The delicate dance is coming in and understanding a company’s culture knowing that, as a leader, people expect you to shift it a little bit — and, if you don’t, they call you ineffective,” she says. “With the Housewives, I’m coming into a group that already has its rhythm — but if I don’t have any impact, if I don’t bring my own sauce, no one will even know I’m here.”
Five episodes in, Saint John’s impact on the famously messy Bravo series has been her sense of style and staid manner in the face of grown women in bedazzled cowboy hats hurling the c-word at one another during a country and western-themed house party. Speaking over Zoom earlier in December, she talked about that measured approach to the drama she’s inherited, trolling her critics with her tagline and which of her past CEOs was the best boss.
You’re a marketer by trade, and marketing is all about controlling the messaging. You cede that control by participating in something like this. How have you found the process of surrendering to the edit?
What’s funny is I actually never considered that I relinquish control — not because I’m not in the edit, but because I’m in control of myself. Throughout my career, I am oftentimes the odd man out, so the spotlight is on me anyway. How my hair looks is the topic of conversation. If I use an expression in a meeting that doesn’t match the conversation, that becomes something. And so there’s really been no time in my life where I’ve felt like I was in control of what people think of me outside of what I’m giving.
Who did you go to for advice when you were weighing the decision of whether or not to join the show?
I don’t often go to people for advice on my career. I’ve found that people often give the wrong advice. Everyone told me to stay at Pepsi and not move to Beats. They’re afraid that, in going, something terrible is going to befall me. No one’s going to know better than me what I need, so I’ve just worked very hard at making sure that I follow my own intuition. The only difference in this scenario, with going into the Housewives, is that I wanted to make sure that anybody in my life who would be featured was OK with it. It wasn’t about me participating. It was about whether or not they wanted to participate. The only person I asked permission from was my daughter. We’re talking about inside of the house where she lives and sleeps and feels safe. Once she said that she was cool with it, then it was on.
Speaking to that safety, there is a track record for racism in the fandom of this franchise — and, some might argue, among cast members. Garcelle Beauvais certainly endured racism from viewers when she became the first Black woman to join Beverly Hills. Was that a concern for you, particularly as it relates to your family?
I’d probably feel differently if I wasn’t already a public figure. I had security at my house when I worked at Uber because people are racist and sexist. They felt that I was using my Blackness and my womanness as a weapon. At the time, the company was facing a lot of heat about not being diverse in the executive suites and also treating women badly. So when I joined and said, “Hey, I’m not shrinking, I’m out in front,” there were a lot of people who were very upset about it. Look, I think racism is illogical. I can’t explain to you why they were mad, but they were sending death threats. My Twitter was on fire. It was crazy. There is nothing new in this experience for me. I wish that I could say I don’t know how to deal with the people who say crazy things, but they’ve talked about me all kind of ways. A publication that we won’t name here once wrote what I consider a hit piece that said I was not worth my salt, that I jumped from job to job. I said, “I’m not even going to respond to this.” My community came to my defense.
The article you’re speaking of [in AdAge] ran over the holidays a few years back and had been edited before I — and many others — even had the chance to read it.
Yes, and they apologized. The editor called me, and I was just like, “Man, I’m just out here trying to have Christmas with my family.” Over the course of my career, people have said a lot of illogical things [about me.] If they want to criticize me about my tenure lengths, have at it. I don’t care. Because I know what I did there and I know why I left. That, to me, has nothing to do with my ability or my success.
Your tagline on this show is “Introducing the greatest product I’ve ever marketed… myself.” That is a criticism that’s followed you in your career. Is this your way of trolling those who doubt you?
Are you kidding me? Of course! I’ve said this a million times, in quiet offices during reviews and in public: You wouldn’t go to a barber or hairdresser that had a fucked up a haircut, would you? You’d take one look at them and say, “Don’t touch my head.” So if I’m not able to market myself, why the hell would you think I can market the thing you want me to? How would that work? Also, companies get a lot of airtime for hiring someone like me. So if I’m out in front, I don’t know why in the hell you’re complaining. And by the way, you are very welcome that I’m able to get in front of an audience and them say, “You know what? We trust her and so therefore we’’ll trust you.” That was one of the biggest things that I brought to Uber.
Especially in the more recent arc of your career, companies were clearly trying to signal something in your hiring.
Absolutely. It is a mutual agreement. You need me and I need you. You need me to signal to people something specific about your hiring practices, your wokeness. And I need you because I need to continue to prove to the world that I’m brilliant at what I do, outside of being Black and a woman. We all have the understanding. There’s no innocence here. So, my tagline is very a “Hello, you said that. And yes, you are correct.”
Were any other tagline ideas floated? I’m unclear on how that process works. Demystify it for me.
I actually still don’t know how it works. I didn’t know that was my tagline until I saw it on TV.
There’s that relinquishing control of the messaging, though!
Yeah, but here’s the thing: I didn’t say anything that I wouldn’t have agreed with. I still feel in control because every single option, I was like, “Oh, yeah, that’s cute. That’s funny.” That they chose the one they did, that’s brilliant.
As someone who knows branding, what is your take on the fact that this show is called The Real Housewives — yet, as of this season, nobody is married?
I don’t know why people take it so seriously. It’s always been tongue in cheek.
Well, people like to take things literally.
But this is the beauty of creativity. Let’s take some liberties here! The idea that you’re getting a real view into somebody’s life is also a little skewed. In reality, you don’t have cameras around all the time. But I do think that this is a beautiful time for the title of this show. It’s the evolution of housewives. How we appear has changed. I think each of the women on the show is representing a slice of women who are out in the world and that everyone can identify with.
From what I’ve seen of this season of The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, you are not participating in the conflict so much as looking dumbfounded as it unfolds around you. What is your appetite for drama?
My appetite or my patience? (Laughs) If people saw inside of boardrooms, they’d be shocked by the way people behave — the things they say, how sharp they can be to each other, how divisive and political they can be. I’m not shocked by the drama, but I am entertained by it. The challenge is that I’m trying to figure out what exactly is going on, because I’m not a person who is just going to listen to one side of the story and go with it. I’m paying attention. So the look on my face is less bewilderment and me just trying to figure out what’s up. One thing that I kept coming back to during taping and during the season was that if everybody could just shut up for a second, and we actually talked about things in order, we could probably figure out the center of the issue pretty quickly. But we’re not running it like a boardroom. I am not the chief. If anybody is willing to hear me, I can help to find a solution. But sometimes people aren’t looking for the solution. They just want to yell.
If you’re not the CEO of this group, what corporate correlative are you?
I feel like the CEO in waiting, the one who’s been brought in and nobody knows that I’m just here to get the lay of the land. Perhaps the CEO is going to retire. I’m just here, understanding how the company runs. That’s all I’m doing.
A colleague of mine wants to know what you did with the lampshade hat that Kathy Hilton gave you.
Oh my God. I gave it to my cousin. My cousin Tina, who makes several appearances on the show, she wore it on her birthday trip to Bali and just posted a picture of it on Instagram. I cannot believe she used it. Ridiculous.
You’ve said there’s a world in which you run for office. How realistic is that world?
Sure. Why not? All of these experiences are continuing to expand my understanding of the world, the people, the businesses, everything. So I think maybe at some point, when I’m done with TV.
There is this much-recycled anecdote about your time working for Spike Lee’s advertising agency out of college and how you got promoted off the reception desk after you borrowed his Bamboozled script and marked it up with notes… but I don’t think I’ve ever heard what you took issue with. Do you remember your notes?
This was the arrogance of it… my notes were grammar and diction. I’m an English major, Wesleyan University, and I looked at the script and I was just like, “What is this? How is this going to pass as brilliant dialogue?” So, my primary notes were about language. And he was like, “Yeah, you made some good points — and some of them were bad, because you don’t understand what I’m trying to do.” He put me in my place. I got it. But he also appreciated what I said. That’s why I got [promoted].
OK, before I let you go, who’s the better boss: Ted Sarandos, Ari Emanuel, Tim Cook or Andy Cohen?
What a terrible question. Evil. Oh my God. Do I have to pick one?
Not if you don’t want to.
I know, but I feel like this’ll be fun. (Pauses to think) I’m going to say Ari Emanuel. He would actually kick my ass if I didn’t. Everybody else would forgive me. Ari would never. So, Ari Emanuel is the best boss.
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The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills airs new episodes Tuesdays at 8 p.m. on Bravo. Read THR’s interview with new recurring star Jennifer Tilly.
Source: Hollywoodreporter
