‘1923’ Star on His Savage Sendoff: “I Always Thought I Would Get an Extraordinary Demise”

[This story contains major spoilers from the penultimate episode of 1923 season two, “The Mountain Teeth of Monsters.”]

“The darkness cannot hide from the light. And I am the light.”

Those are the words spoken by Father Renaud (Sebastian Roché) when the priest finally stands before protagonist Teonna Rainwater (Aminah Nieves) with a gun to her head in the penultimate episode of 1923 season two.

Since season one, Father Renaud has been hunting Teonna, the Native girl who escaped his Indian assimilation boarding school and left murdered nuns (including Jennifer Ehle) in her wake. He spent the majority of this season tracking Teonna on horseback alongside Marshall Kent (Jamie McShane). When he finally finds her, thanks to a lit campfire — after killing Kent over the murder of Teonna’s love, Pete Plenty Clouds (Jeremy Gauna) — Renaud shoots Teonna’s father, Runs His Horse (Michael Spears), and demands Teonna repent for her sins before he kills her, too.

But even in what she believes to be her final moment, Teonna will not relent. A survivor ever since the Taylor Sheridan series began telling her story from inside the abusive halls of the reservation school, she refuses to repeat her former headmaster’s words.

“I am trying to save your soul, and to free you from eternal perdition! … You are renouncing salvation!” he screams, nearly combusting at the seams of his cloth. “I’m not sorry. You be sorry. You beg for forgiveness. … I renounce it!” she counters. When Renaud pulls the trigger and realizes he is out of bullets, Teonna pounces on the priest. She burns his face with coal from the fire, violently stabs him with a knife and then shoots him twice point-blank.

Roché tells The Hollywood Reporter that he always expected an “extraordinary demise” for his villainous character, who was crafted by Sheridan from real-life U.S. history and the government-funded, often church-run Indian boarding schools of the 19th and 20th centuries. The episode’s director, Ben Richardson, wanted his death scene to be as “savage as possible,” he says, which led to Roché being armed with body pads so scene partner Nieves “could really go at it” with the (fake) knife, he says. “I was like, ‘Just go for it.’ I really wanted it to be violent. I think my death was well deserved!”

Below, Roché describes filming his death scene (“If we were in a movie theater, people would be clapping”) and unpacks Renaud’s “obsession” with Teonna, who is now mourning her father and the love of her life as she’s forced to rise from literal ashes as she and the rest of the cast head into what is sure to be an epic conclusion to season two. With this week’s penultimate episode killing off seven characters, what do we expect from next week’s finale? Roché offers his tease below.

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I know that you as a cast didn’t know what was going to happen in season two when you were making season one. But did you always assume that your Father Renaud would get an epic death?

Well, it seemed to me that’s what was deserved for the character. I always thought that I would get an extraordinary demise, and I have to admit that I wasn’t disappointed. It was really the demise I was wanting for the character. I was hoping it would happen later in the season, which is what happened, because I go through this incredible journey to get to my ultimate goal. Then when I saw the written scenes, I thought, “Wow, my god, this is really exceptional.”

We saw more depth this season to Father Renaud, beyond the brutal headmaster he was in season one. He has this moment earlier in the episode where he kills Kent for killing Pete Plenty Clouds. He served up some justice.

I wouldn’t say that Renaud evolves in season two, but I think the man changes because of the environment that he’s in. It’s something that he’s not familiar with. That happens when you are thrust into the wilderness; wilderness changes you. Marshall Kent becomes the sort of primary antagonist in season two until, of course, this episode. What’s really interesting is Father Renaud has a mirror in front of him of what an individual can do in his moment of evil, and I think that’s what’s really fascinating. Does he start doubting his actions? No.

What I find really interesting in his relationship with Marshall Kent is … is he killing him because he suddenly has a surge of humanity? I don’t think so. I think it’s because Marshall Kent is wasting time. This is a means to an end. Renaud’s primary goal is an obsession — and I really want to highlight the word “obsession.” There is a real obsession with Teonna Rainwater. The only person who really has stood up to him, the person who has basically done what no other person has ever done in his realm inside the residential school.

I think that leads to a form of admiration and love in a way, an obsession within his character. As I say in the scene with Marshall Kent, “We are here to find a murderer. We’re not here to waste time killing other people.” So everything is a means to an end. There is something really diabolical about that. People might think that he’s changing, but I think the purpose and the evil is still within him, motivating him towards his end goal.

In his final confrontation with Teonna, he’s screaming at her that he’s trying to save her. In that moment when she defies him, you almost looked ready to combust.

He cannot believe that he’s being resisted. Ego and extremism go hand in hand. What I find really interesting in [1923 creator] Taylor [Sheridan]’s writing is how he puts in little ideas about extremism and religion, and it’s true when you combine that with this motivation for vengeance and his obsession for Teonna. I think he fantasizes about her giving in, bringing her back and I don’t know what he wants to do with her. There is something sick within the mind of his individual.

Through the journey, you see his mind start to waver. I think it’s a dissent into madness. If you are a rock climber, when I get to the top, there is this adrenaline rush exultation. With Father Renaud, what I find fascinating in that scene is that he really believes she’s going to give in. He really believes that the word of god is going to win over who he considers to be someone unworthy. “I’m trying to save you. I’m the good guy here” — when he is anything but, like anyone who is an extremist. But what is fascinating is that he believes he’s right. To the end, he believes he’s right.

And the fact that Teonna rejects him is something that is tragically of our time and has been for women. When a woman resists a man, not only sexually, there is condemnation and violence. This is the embodiment of this, within his mix of ego and extremism. It’s such an extraordinary moment. I think my death was well deserved!

And it comes with the death of another character, which is really tragic, that nobody expected to happen, including me. I was reading the script and I was like, “Boy, are you fucking kidding me?” I expected my death, but not his death.

Since so many people die in this episode — seven in total — are you referring to Jack Dutton’s death (played by Darren Mann)?

Yes, Jack’s death. And I was also surprised that I actually kill Sir Runs His Horse [played by Michael Spears]. I stayed on set when Aminah has that scene [by the fire] with [her dad], which was heartbreaking. It was such an extraordinary moment between the two of them because they had such a bond as friends, actors and artists. When you play someone’s father, it creates a bond. And actually Aminah and I are very, very good friends and it really helped in our performance. The exchange that we had was really, really rich and really wonderful.

I want to ask you about the logistics of your death scene. First, Teonna (Nieves) burns your face. Then she stabs you multiple times, before shooting you for good measure.

Yes, the moment. We had to shoot my death after we’d done that [confrontation] scene. She takes something and pushes it into my face. We actually had makeup put a contraption that was fixed onto my face and had a remote control. That’s why my face is lit up. It’s not CGI. It lit up and created this truly incredibly dramatic moment. It was really amazing.

We shot the first part where I’m trying to shoot her, then called cut and I went into makeup. [Ben] Richardson, the director — our unbelievable director, really the best director I’ve worked with in my career — he really wanted the scene to be as savage as possible with my death. First she burns my face, then I get stabbed. Then she shoots him and I found that so appropriate — it’s the man who would never die. He’s like a cockroach. It was a really, really intense moment. I saw the episode and I’m very impressed at the way it was filmed and handled. We were both very, very emotional in that scene.

And that was you as well while she was stabbing you, or was that a stunt double?

It was me. It was with a fake [knife]. I was wearing a pad all across my body so that she could really go at it. I was like, “Just go for it.” I really wanted it to be violent. Ben wanted it to be as violent as possible. If we were in a movie theater, people would be clapping, I think. I wish this series would be shown in a movie theater because it really deserves it. Every episode felt like being on the set of a big movie.

Did you film your character’s death and Michael Spears’ death as Runs His Horse chronologically in the same day?

It was the same day. And the interesting thing about this scene is that we shot on a soundstage, which is a credit to the production design. Every time I walked in a new location, I would go over to the production designers and set dresses and congratulate them and tell them, “You cannot realize how brilliant you are and how it makes our jobs so much easier.” And same with Janie Bryant’s costumes. They dress the soundstage like the planes of Amarillo, Texas, which makes it so much easier to do the scene because on the soundstage you don’t have the constraints of the outdoors, like the wind, rain or whatever.

And so Michael Spears was there. I felt terrible that I killed Michael’s character, as I felt terrible about killing anyone — except for Marshall Kent. (Laughs)

Was it emotional when you wrapped since it was the final shot for both of you?

Yes. When we did this scene, we were in the heights of emotion. We were crying. Even my character, you can’t see it too much because we were in the dark, but we were highly emotional. You work yourself up into that extreme emotion. You can take off the mask after people yell “cut,” but it stays with you. The emotion was one of great satisfaction because we succeeded in what we wanted to do in that scene. I think the scene, even though violent, is beautiful. It’s beautifully crafted and filmed. I’m very, very happy with the results. So there’s this extreme satisfaction as an artist and as an actor, mixed with emotion.

Teonna has been a hero of 1923, an endless survivor. She’s just lost her father and the love of her life. But killing your character frees her in a way that she hasn’t been free since we’ve met her on the show. How do you imagine she rises up from this?

I can’t tell you! It’s going to be really interesting. You never know what happens with Taylor Sheridan, that’s all I can say. Keep you on your toes! Episode seven is a remarkable episode. When I read it, I devoured it like every script from Taylor Sheridan that I devour like a brilliant book. There’s so much that happens in the finale, you’re in for treat.

I was struck by your season one interviews when you spoke about how painful some of your scenes were to film at the boarding school, and how you would apologize to scene partners between takes. Usually you can find redeemable characteristics or justify actions as an actor, even when playing a villain, but how difficult was it to play someone like Renaud?  

It’s difficult because this is someone who’s based in reality. This is something that truly happened. I’m not talking about the journey he goes onto to find Teonna [in season two], but what happened at residential schools happened. When I did my research, I was horrified. I’d heard about it because it was in the news after the discovery of the mass graves in Canada, and I’m sure more in in the U.S.

It that [season one] day where I killed Teonna’s best friend Baapuxti (Leenah Robinson), that was a really especially difficult day for me being surrounded by all these beautiful kids whose ancestors have probably gone through these horrors. That made it all the more difficult. But at the end of the day, this is my job as an actor and I think the story was necessary to be told. I’m glad that Taylor actually put this out there.

I saw this extraordinary documentary that was nominated for the Oscars called Sugarcane on the same subject; it’s now a subject that is out in the open and we can really discuss what happened — the truth and horrors of what happened in the name of religion, supposedly. In a way, I’m glad that I was the one who conveyed the importance of that period in history. I can see it that way. Emotionally, it was difficult.

Will you play a villain next, or are you looking for a good guy?

I don’t know, actually. We’ll see. I really love complex characters. I don’t classify them completely as villains. Committing these actions come from something deep-seated inside of them, from a complexity that comes from maybe childhood trauma, young man trauma, something traumatic that happened in their lives. I really love to go for rich characters. There are certain actors who really love to play these complex characters and I’m one of them. That’s why I consider myself a character actor in that respect.

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1923 releases its season two finale Friday on Paramount+. Follow along with THR’s season coverage and interviews, including our penultimate episode postmortem interviews with Darren Mann on Jack’s death, and Michael Spears and Jeremy Guana on the deaths of Runs His Horse and Pete Plenty Clouds.